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Stephen Saperstein Frug's avatar

Talk to me at 100 million, not 100,000, Dave.

You're right that that seems like the proper response, because of something you yourself linked to, the now-classic "Welcome to Hell, Elon" post by Nilay Patel, which I just reread since you linked to it (and boy does it hold up). Patel wrote:

"The essential truth of every social network is that the product is content moderation, and everyone hates the people who decide how content moderation works. Content moderation is what Twitter *makes* — it is the thing that defines the user experience. It’s what YouTube makes, it’s what Instagram makes, it’s what TikTok makes. They all try to incentivize good stuff, disincentivize bad stuff, and delete the really bad stuff."

If this is right, then it sounds from what you wrote that Bluesky hasn't been tested yet. It's invite only: it's fun because the trans shitposters can post without fear. That's great. But it's easy to do if you're only inviting people & are remotely selective about it. The question is will they be able to shitpost without fear *after* the doors are thrown open. And nothing you've said gives any indication of what the answer to that will be.

I haven't used Bluesky yet—not invited—and you make it sounds great. I hope it works! I liked (as well as hated) twitter pre-Elon (and you do underplay here how twitter was justly known as the hellsite *before* Elon took over, even as its users all kept coming back and also got things out of it), and if Bluesky can recreate that, great. (I mean, partly great. Its being a hellsite wasn't only do to easily-bannable-by-AI trolls: it was also due to the dynamics of attention and group action and out-of-context tweets and all sorts of things that would necessarily be recreated if Twitter Pre-E was recreated, since they were baked into its format). But I feel like all you're saying so far is that private parties don't have assholes in them. Which isn't much of a test, as far as I can tell.

But I'm not a media theorist, so maybe this is wrong. If you think so, I'd love to hear why.

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Gerben Wierda's avatar

It seems to me that the current state of BlueSky (a curated group with big names) is not a good representation of what Bluesky will be. If you ask yourself, how is this not going to be Twitter, you end up with a few observations and questions:

1. Is this just Twitter but with your own choice of algorithm?

2. How is this going to be paid for? It is a network of ‘personal data servers’ and ‘big graph servers’+’feed generators’. (see https://blueskyweb.xyz/blog/5-5-2023-federation-architecture) The latter is where all the data goes (firehose), requires a lot of money, and where the algorithms run.

3. If you rely on algorithms (and a free choice of labeling by others) to curate (or select your own bubble), how does that protect the providers against anti-hate-speech and all other societal rules? Will the party that runs the bgs say “It’s not me, guv” and get away with everthing? Because that bgs is what Twitter is doing now centrally: run the algorithms.

4. If there are many bgs’s, how much waste in traffic will there be as they all will want access to all traffic to put into their algorithms. They all want to ‘crawl’ all the providers. Instead of a push architecture, bluesky is a pull architecture, it seems.

These are just initial questions.

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